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| Bush still liable for crimes after 2008? | | |
Sponsor |  laidman | Dec 22, 2005 7:09pm | Let's assume for the purpose of this discussion that Bush has committed crimes for which he could be impeached. If he's not impeached while in office,
1. can he be held liable for crimes after the end of his term?
2. can someone outside of Congress file a petition of complaint against him for these crimes?
3. would that non-governmental individual have to have been personally harmed by his actions?
Thank you. |
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Sponsor | | Flackrum | Apr 2, 2006 11:41am | Good question. I couldn't find any legal text or precedent for impeachment after leaving office. The primary result of an impeachment conviction being 'removal from office'.
According to Article I, Sec.3, Cl. 7 of the Constitution:
"Judgement in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States; but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgement and Punishment according to law."
Without exclusionary law to exempt former Presidents, it could be argued that former Presidents hold an office of Trust and Profit, whereby they are given federal money, security, and ceremonial acts at no cost to themselves. Under that perspective, and without knowledge of other exemptions, it seems "possible" to impeach, though impractical. It is more likely that the argument is invalidated by the "position" no longer being an elected one, instead being ceremonial in nature.
There is a higher 'potential' of censure of a former President, given that the very act is symbolic and legally non-effectual. Furthermore, the act of censuring is a loose and fairly undefined act of Congress.
I do hope more people can add information to this thread. It is an interesting legal question regardless of differing opinions of the current President. |
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|  |  1210966 | Nov 9, 2006 5:52pm | | I believe it would depend upon whether these hypothetical crimes constituted felonies and what the relevant statutes of limitations were. I don't believe even a former president would be exempt from the penalties of, for example, high treason. Comments? |
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|  G-MO | Nov 10, 2006 9:17pm | | I have heard (I don't know how to verify this without becoming a lawyer) is that a recent bill (the one that suspended Habeas Corpus) basically gives Bush immunity for war crimes. I guess I could google it... hmmm |
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| | | 1210966 | Nov 11, 2006 4:41am | | I could easily be wrong, but aren't war crimes in the jurisdiction of the U.N.? Or the World Court? Not that I want to see even Bush tried by an organization of foreigners who all have their own axes to grind, but it is still something to think about. |
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| | G-MO | Nov 11, 2006 8:24am | Here I have no clue... Legal proceedings are not my expertise. I have no doubt that the UN can declare somebody guilty of war crimes, but if the guilty nation respects that is another issue.
I know the US passed a law in 1996 so they could convict (among others) US citizens of violations of the Geneva Convention... So legally the US could judge it's own people, but I think Bush has helped undermine that (no facts yet).
I also don't like the idea of Bush being judged by a world court, even if he is guilty of crimes. |
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|  Vahala64 | Jan 28, 2007 3:06pm | 1) President George Bush
"At stake here is the `rule of law.' If the President can simply chart his course and establish his own rules, not being bound by the legislative or judicial branches of the government, he is effectively `above the law.' In fact, he is the law."
-- John W. Whitehead, president of The Rutherford Institute, commenting on the NSA wiretapping of American citizens without a warrant
I believe that we the people need take a closer look at the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights and process that information as a layman and not as legal counsel, and then take a moment and review the past of the MAN (GW Bush)and assess the facts....keep in mind to always respect and preserve the "OFFICE of the Presidency"
Now after 2008 do we the people hold the man (GW Bush) accountable for putting our NATION in clear and present danger and bind our Legislative and Judicial branches of Government into performing that tasks that WE THE PEOPLE need them to do in order to preserve the spirit and meaning of those documents that where written by the framers of this Nation as well as protect what defines this nation as the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Excuse the rant but we as a-whole have to drawn a hard line and educate ourselves as so we may stand up and protect our rights and liberties |
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Sponsor | |
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| | Vahala64 | Jan 28, 2007 5:39pm | [Constitution for the United States of America][1]
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Article. I.
Section. 1.[2] All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
Section. 2. The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.
No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons [Modified by Amendment XIV]. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New-York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.
When vacancies happen in the Representation from any State, the Executive Authority thereof shall issue Writs of Election to fill such Vacancies.
The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.
Section. 3. The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof [Modified by Amendment XVII], for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.
Immediately after they shall be assembled in Consequence of the first Election, they shall be divided as equally as may be into three Classes. The Seats of the Senators of the first Class shall be vacated at the Expiration of the second Year, of the second Class at the Expiration of the fourth Year, and of the third Class at the Expiration of the sixth Year, so that one third may be chosen every second Year; and if Vacancies happen by Resignation, or otherwise, during the Recess of the Legislature of any State, the Executive thereof may make temporary Appointments until the next Meeting of the Legislature, which shall then fill such Vacancies [Modified by Amendment XVII].
No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen.
The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.
The Senate shall chuse their other Officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the Absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the Office of President of the United States.
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
Section. 4. The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
The Congress shall assemble at least once in every Year, and such Meeting shall be on the first Monday in December [Modified by Amendment XX], unless they shall by Law appoint a different Day.
Section. 5. Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members, and a Majority of each shall constitute a Quorum to do Business; but a smaller Number may adjourn from day to day, and may be authorized to compel the Attendance of absent Members, in such Manner, and under such Penalties as each House may provide.
Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member.
Each House shall keep a Journal of its Proceedings, and from time to time publish the same, excepting such Parts as may in their Judgment require Secrecy; and the Yeas and Nays of the Members of either House on any question shall, at the Desire of one fifth of those Present, be entered on the Journal.
Neither House, during the Session of Congress, shall, without the Consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other Place than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting.
Section. 6. The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been encreased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.
Section. 7. All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose o |
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Sponsor | | usmjam | Apr 13, 2007 11:01am | 9) Thanks, but we do have links to copies of our Constitution from various websites. Still, do add more links, if you wish, in the Recents Sites section or within threads.
Perhaps start threads for specific Sections of our Constitution as individual topics. |
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| Bush still liable for crimes after 2008? | | |
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